I agree it isn’t a good test, but your logic isn’t very sound in your arguments. The polygraph obviously has some value for detecting deception in some individuals, the question is whether it is an accurate (sensitive/specific) enough tool to justify its use on all individuals in security-sensitive roles. I think we can agree that it is not accurate enough to justify itself, but that doesn’t prevent us from analyzing its implementation.
Failure rates are indeed a policy choice. Even if the polygraph was no better than flipping a coin as a statistical test, it is still a policy decision to decide the overall pass/fail rates. For example, if they allow up to three tests and one pass is enough, even with it only being accurate 50% of the time, you would decrease your ‘fail’ rate down to 12.5% because applicants would need to unluckily flip three ‘heads’ in a row to fail. Obviously, it is much better to have a very sensitive and specific test underlying the evaluation, but even barring that, failure rates are controlled by policy.
Do you have a source for that claim? I think it is equally probable that failure rates go down because current employees (who have already passed at least one poly) are less nervous, therefore making it easier for the polygrapher to pass them.
No, that’s not obvious. Polygraphy has no scientific basis. Any value it may have lies in its ability to scare admissions out of naive and gullible subjects.
Regarding the much lower polygraph failure rate among employees as opposed to applicants, federal agencies are loathe to provide details on such matters and do not regularly publish statistics. However, a 2006 report by the DOJ Inspector General’s Office showed that from FY 2002-2005, the FBI had a pre-employment polygraph pass rate of 67%, while the pass rate for existing employees was 95%:
I don’t know much about poly but my friend who took courses, became certified and went to work for the “Army” told me exactly what you’re saying. I asked my friend… after all your training and experience is the poly system in itself legitimate in determining truthfulness and she said hands down NO before I even completed my question.
Hey guys. I was informed by the agency that was directly processing me that “I am fully cleared and ready to hire”. That was a good part.
Now, the CJO they gave me is exactly a THIRD of my current salary. I agreed to it at the time because I wanted to get a clearance and do the type of job I applied for. Accepting their FJO, which I’m still waiting for, would mean that I’m basically working for free (between renting a place, gas, tolls and commuting 4-5 hours there and back on the weekends). My family would stay where it is, at least for the first 6 months to a year.
My questions to you guys:
If I go with contractors, would they be able to see my clearance, given that I haven’t been read in yet, and easily transfer it? How long does it normally take?
Would my original agency that sponsored me get pissed off that I didn’t agree to their FJO and somehow will make it difficult for the contractor to take on my clearance?
If I go the contractor route, will I be able in a couple of years to reapply to the agency again or will I be “blacklisted” for refusing the FJO the first time?
I still haven’t decided what I’m going to do, I haven’t gotten the FJO yet, but I don’t expect it to be much different from the CJO. Contractors pay a lot more. It’s not all about money but it’s still an important part.
Would appreciate people chime in.
Thanks!
If its with NSA your clearance wont be active or visible in any system until you EOD.
They would not be able to see it so it would be impossible for a contractor to take it.
I don’t think you will be blacklisted unless it’s CIA. They get offended if you go through their entire hiring process and do not EOD with them.
There was a user on here a few years ago that claimed to have done exactly what you are trying to do. They didn’t EOD and were still hired by a contractor. YMMV.
A pay cut like that is hard to swallow… but one thing to keep in mind, you will be in a better position to get training as a direct-hire government employee than as a contractor.
Some people in your position… that is, an awfully long time elapsed after receiving the CJO… have been able to renegotiate a higher starting salary. I doubt very much they’ll match your current salary, but maybe you can get a little closer.
I lean towards a yes. Normally they need either clarify a few responses or have you sign a conduct letter…and clear you. Otherwise it is done by mail. They don’t call you in to tell you “no go,” just to walk you out.
Absolutely. Clearing up, attending to last few items. If you know there were finance questions bring updated payment records, fico score etc. Its good to show progress made (if that was a concern). I helped plenty people hit homeruns at this juncture on that subject.
Actually it wasn’t that long for me at all, probably because I had a BI completed a year before NSA’s processing started, so they must have used it. I sent my SF86 in March and they told me on Nov 1st that I am cleared.
Anyway, I’m waiting for FJO now. Looking forward to start, been trying to get into this for many years.
Amber , I had an interview with adjucator 2 months ago for my file, this is for Virginia customer that has been going on for 4 years (after Sf86 ,poly -2 times, sf86c , sf86 Poly 2 times… ya i know i am blessed one) for a Full time position.
Thoughts on this case overall… Can i see sunlight in 2022?
Pardon me for butting in; can you please clarify something for me? So I was sponsored by a federal contractor to work for the NSA and have been in the adjudication phase since late July 2021 when I had my poly. Of course, I am impatient and the sponsoring agency is rather annoyed with me already when I ask them every 3-4 weeks if anything has changed so I asked an investigator at my current workplace (major federal contractor, I may consider them) to check on my status and the answer was that the only info they can see is that I am under an investigation without any details. Will the same story be no matter who checks on my status unless it is the sponsoring contractor? Can I have an interim TSC as a civilian? Thank you.