# SAP program denied? No reason and No appeal **URL:** \ **Category:** SECURITY CLEARANCE Q&A\ **Created:** [August 21, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621 "2020-08-21T11:13:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuan\_Ngo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tuan\_Ngo](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/Tuan_Ngo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/1 "2020-08-21T11:13:01Z")
Hi all, I have secret clearance and waiting to get into SAP program, I am waiting for 8 months now and I am at step 8 of 9. Today, my boss told me that I have bad news that I get denied to get into SAP program, and there is no reason, can’t appeal either. Does anyone know what happen? know anyone have same situation like me? What should I do now? Please help!!! My background: foreign born, no drug, clean background, have few foreign contact … my in-law, my dad in other country. ---
**Author:** ![sbusquirrel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/sbusquirrel/32/34_2.png) [@sbusquirrel](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/sbusquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/2 "2020-08-21T12:08:10Z")
Obviously I have no idea what’s going on with your situation but the two close relatives (close enough to be listed on the SF-86) still living overseas, presumably in your country of origin, may have had something to do with it. This should have no impact whatsoever on your secret clearance. I don’t think you even have to report it on future SF-86 forms. ---
**Author:** ![Chzburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Chzburger](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/Chzburger)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/3 "2020-08-21T15:09:36Z")
I don’t think you can appeal SAP program denials. When your employer submits you for access to a SAP, they are essentially filling out a request. After they submit the request, the decision is completely out of their hands at that point. Ultimately, the approving authority at the program office makes the final call. SAP denials can happen for a variety of different reasons. It’s not just about the whole-person concept. Other reasons that may cause a SAP denial include the desire to keep the number of accessed people to a bare minimum or questions concerning validity of the person’s “need-to-know”. Sometimes, employers get trigger happy with SAP access requests and indicate “possible future work” or some other half-assed reason as to why the subject in question needs access. If the approving authority is not convinced of the subject’s need-to-know based on the justification provided by the submitter, they can deny access. I am not intending to speculate as to why the denial happened in your particular case. I am just making the point that there are a whole bunch of different reasons why access to SAPs can be denied. But as @sbusquirrel said, a SAP denial is NOT a clearance denial. You wouldn’t have to report this as a clearance denial on future SF-86s. ---
**Author:** ![sbusquirrel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/sbusquirrel/32/34_2.png) [@sbusquirrel](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/sbusquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/4 "2020-08-21T18:44:37Z")
> [@Chzburger](#): > > Other reasons that may cause a SAP denial include the desire to keep the number of accessed people to a bare minimum I’ve seen this… especially when you work for a subcontractor and ultimately the prime contractor acts as the gatekeeper for submissions for access. ---
**Author:** ![Tuan\_Ngo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tuan\_Ngo](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/Tuan_Ngo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/5 "2020-08-21T18:50:04Z")
yes, you are correct. I work for sub contract right now, you think because of this reason? so what should i do now? ---
**Author:** ![sbusquirrel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/sbusquirrel/32/34_2.png) [@sbusquirrel](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/sbusquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/6 "2020-08-21T21:38:43Z")
> [@Tuan\_Ngo](#): > > I work for sub contract right now, you think because of this reason? No idea if that is the reason but like I say it doesn’t help. I don’t know what you can do. Hopefully they have some other work for you that doesnt require SAP access. ---
**Author:** ![maverick1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/maverick1234/32/1604_2.png) [@maverick1234](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/maverick1234)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/7 "2020-08-21T22:52:16Z")
Sorry to hear that, maybe it’s better to find work outside the defense industry, you will make more $$$. ---
**Author:** ![Dima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Dima](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/Dima)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/8 "2020-08-22T00:32:30Z")
This sounds ridiculous. People go through a lot of sacrifices to get into the industry, putting their lives on hold in some cases, moving across the country for their dream job, taking pay cuts to do something that matters and after all that someone says you don’t have an access/clearance anymore with no explanations. And what are you supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![thor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@thor](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/thor)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/9 "2020-08-22T01:08:37Z")
That is how it works. Not everyone can have access to information. There is simply some risks that cannot be taken. ---
**Author:** ![Dima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Dima](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/Dima)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 2:13am UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/10 "2020-08-22T02:13:29Z")
I understand that, but why not to give a reason for a revocation of the clearance? From what I’ve read on these boards, it could be that some gov paper pusher forgot to update something on the system and the person is screwed. I’m sure that never happened. ---
**Author:** ![velcroTech](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/velcrotech/32/186_2.png) [@velcroTech](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/velcroTech)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/11 "2020-08-22T03:26:37Z")
> [@Dima](#): > > why not to give a reason for a revocation of the clearance? They did not get their clearance denied, they were only not granted access to SAP. This is not an uncommon occurrence and isn’t necessarily derogatory in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Dima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Dima](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/Dima)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/12 "2020-08-22T07:27:09Z")
I’m talking more of a general situation, where a person had a clearance and then had it taken away. There should either be given a way to mitigate the situation quickly or given a reason why it’s not possible. From what I’ve read, there are a lot of cases where people don’t know why their clearance or access were suspended and there is no explanation. ---
**Author:** ![velcroTech](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/velcrotech/32/186_2.png) [@velcroTech](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/velcroTech)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/13 "2020-08-22T14:35:21Z")
> [@Dima](#): > > there are a lot of cases where people don’t know why their clearance or access were suspended and there is no explanation. I think they know why, they just don’t feel like admitting to it. I have been around this more than half my life and I have never known somebody to lose their clearance that didn’t know why. Out of all the cleared people there are a small percentage that come on here to claim they lost their clearance without reason. There is also no way to verify these people had a clearance to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![sbusquirrel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/sbusquirrel/32/34_2.png) [@sbusquirrel](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/sbusquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/14 "2020-08-22T15:05:15Z")
I’ve been dealing with stuff since before some of my co-workers parents were born (or so it seems) and I can recall only one case where this happened… and it wasnt that the person lost their clearance, they were just told they could no longer work on programs for a certain customer. Granted, over 90% of that company’s business was with that customer, but technically they did not lose their clearance. And even in this case, the person knew why (or they thought they did) but they never received formal notification of the reason for the action. It was a long time ago, I think they were told that more information would be forthcoming, but it never did, and they left the company not too long afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![backgdinvestigator](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/backgdinvestigator/32/209_2.png) [@backgdinvestigator](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/backgdinvestigator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/15 "2020-08-22T16:12:23Z")
The security program is not a jobs program. The program is a risk management program. Reading publicly available news gives countless examples where a security risk assessment failed. Risk is the game. Just like you would not give a gambling addict a dealer job in casino - not because they are individually bad but they are a risk. Many clearance and all SAPs programs have strict access programs. This is why the positions for background investigation levels are low, medium, and high risk. You didn’t get access but kept your clearance. That was a risk assessment - not a denial. ---
**Author:** ![HARPOON](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4da419/32.png) [@HARPOON](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/u/HARPOON)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://discuss.clearancejobsblog.com/t/sap-program-denied-no-reason-and-no-appeal/11621/16 "2020-08-22T18:56:44Z")
> [@backgdinvestigator](#): > > The security program is not a jobs program. The program is a risk management program. This sums it up succinctly.