Appeal process hopeless ???


I feel you. Honestly I do not think there is anything wrong with fixing items because you “wanted a clearance.” We all require a motivation of sorts, a reason for doing what we do. Normally, though finances make up a big portion of denials and revocations, I know my client goes to great lengths making sure you follow the rules, initiate repayment plans etc. It does take 4 or 5 payments made on time before they consider it addressed debt instead of unaddressed debt. The more time that passes where you are in the black, not the red, continuing to keep your nose clean, is all in your favor. The 10 year old DWI’s are minor players if you never had any other alcohol related issues since. Using the whole person concept they will want to look at the sum total of events to adjudicate. I agree if the decision was made on bad info…they may very well not consider it additional info but correcting the record. Never give up, never give in. Don’t listen to the naysayers claiming you only fixed it to get a clearance. Matter of fact if that is from your security office I recommend lodging a complaint for unprofessional behavior.



Here’s the problem there: The government used incorrect evidence at your hearing, written or in person, you should have provided the information to refute that evidence as part of the hearing. They will not consider new evidence to refute what was presented at the hearing.

On the other hand, if the government used evidence they knew, or should have known, was false, you may be able to introduce evidence of this. If the judge should have been able to discern, from your testimony that the evidence was false, you have an argument. As suggested above . . . I would strongly suggest at least a consultation with a clearance lawyer. We are getting into fine points of evidence here and presentation and proper arguments are a huge part of what you’re trying to accomplish.



Amber . . . I have to disagree with you here . . . CAF lawyers will ALWAYS look to the idea that an applicant is only cleaning up their act because they want a clearance. The implication is that once you accomplish your goal (getting cleared) you will slip back to your old ways. It can actually be considered another example of dishonesty.

I was, in fact, accused of exactly that. Only cleaning up my credit because of my clearance application. In my case I was able to show, pretty clearly, that I only discovered the issues raise BECAUSE of my clearance application and that had I known about them, I would have addressed them even if I was not going for a cleared job.

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He had to submit the SF86 before accepting the job and he had to accept & start the job before they would request the poly. FS Polys were in June 2018 and last Friday, January 11, 2019 the sponsor called HR and said he failed and to fire him without giving a reason.

Curious to see this SOR when it arrives. If the reason already exists hopefully it arrives fast.



There are too many contracting companies that are hiring people under the assumption of them getting cleared and not giving them the proper information in the hiring process indicating what to expect during the process. I don’t know how they are allowed to operate like this especially when people have current, stable full-time jobs, they apply to a position, pass everything and then get denied access authorization for whatever reason, then turn around and fire the employee. They should allow them to continue to work until the results are returned, positive or negative, and not require them to start with the company full-time.



Due diligence is the responsibility of BOTH sides. Not just the employer. Most employers these days aren’t letting anyone start until they hear about an interim. Even then, they usually only let you start if they have non-cleared work available.

Employees need to research what it means when a job description says, “Must be able to obtain and retain a U.S. Department of Defense Secret Clearance.” You can’t just say, "Sure . . . I can do that . . . " and quit your job. Most companies don’t want to quit and work for them while you are waiting for your clearance. It hurts their bottom line if you are denied. They have spent money on your clearance and they have been paying you to do little or no work. That’s why they screen SF86 forms and only bring you in if they are pretty sure that you are going to clear.

Of course, what we see here (not the average case remember) is that employees lie on their SF86. Or they “forget” about that DUI back in 2014. Or they can’t remember what the charge was or they forget that their credit cards are in collection or whatever other problems get turned up in the investigations.

The problem is clearly on both sides . . .



I can’t say too much without singling out companies but you are correct, that’s how it should work. In reality, with the other Departments, it’s not working like that.



Yes they kept saying I owed them money but everytime I spoke to someone the total changed drastically. They intercepted 2 refund checks from federal taxes for about 1400. So all said and done nothing has changed in a year or so. I only made one payment out of pocket for 100.00. They intercepted refunds and applied them to 1998 which has been paid off. None of what they did makes any sense. But I will bring all this up to an attorney , thanks man.



Amber, no that comment didn’t come from anyone at work, it is straight from the judges mouth in his written copy of my decision. Aside from taking what the state gives me back and handing it over to Kansas city, I don’t have any old debt. No matter

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Oops , No matter what happens here, all the things that I did for myself over the last 2 years get to come with me. I am excited about a clean slate start in a few different areas. Does anyone know how much time I could possibly ask for on an extension. I am involved with a project at work which is requiring all the OT I can handle, so I’m not getting very much work done on an appeal



Well I wouldn’t know how else to prove to anyone why , I got everything cleaned up , but it sure made it easy when we received a 50% plus raise. I figured I’d get as much done as possible in case I don’t get to keep the job. And like I said I get to take that stuff with me



AKBALD, might be splitting a hair here…they will not call a contract company and tell them you failed, fire them. They will only tell them “remove all classified material from their possession, debrief and escort from the compound/workspace.” It is up to the company if they wish to retain the employee in uncleared space. Some companies cannot. As with my contract all positions are cleared, and we are 3 hours from any other company location. So if one loses a clearance they will be walked off. We do however submit folks all the time that are non witting. They do not start until cleared. That is the slowest group to process because I must wait on a traveling polygraph team to come to my location. I cannot send an non witting person to an overt location. If they require a follow up poly 6 months later as described…well, they wait until a team travels to my location again.

Ed, that is interesting. Harsh but interesting. I see your point (and theirs). Reminds me of a job I had 20 years ago working in a prison where a drug addict would have a file annotated “sober by means of confinement.” The y recognized for many the only reason they were not relapsed or drinking was only due to confinement.



@RedBaron4Life, I suggest you to retain a security clearance attorney for this one. Admittedly, I am not familiar with DHOA rule of appellate procedure; however, I can imagine that working overtime will not be an acceptable reason for the extension considering that you have 45-day from judge’s decision to file. However, I can be wrong about that. Usually, an extension can be granted on ground that the circumstance is no fault of your own (ie: Government fails to furnish you documents, death in family, etc.)



Thanks for all the comments and feedback. After gathering it all, I’m wondering how often someone who goes in for a 2nd poly and DOES NOT get a post poly interview? Especially if something came up that led to termination months later?



Actually right now the majority of employees end up with a repeat Poly. 05 to 10% get an interview post 2nd Poly. A few end up with three Poly’s. Follow up Poly doesn’t always imply a problem.



Hey there, i wanted to say that i did retain an attorney who did write up my appeal and I think i feel like he did a pretty thorough job. I am now just waiting to hear. A couple of things i have questions about, if I still get unfavorable results on the appeal i read that i would need to wait a year before reapplying. When exactly does that year start , has the clock already been ticking



It already started. When the administrative judge rendered a decision, that is the date even if the appeal was not successful.