The sun rises on the Defense Counterintelligence and Security Agency

Paid handsomely? :joy::joy:

$200.00 per subject interview? Is that what you call handsomely? That has been the rate of pay for Subject interviews for a decade or more with no raises. The only one’s getting paid handsomely are the vendors. Certainly not the CI. Not to mention the free time all CI’s have to give to fix nonsensical refiles to make a reviewer feel better and all warm and fuzzy before they submit the case to the agency or second level review. Not to mention the free trips to FedEx while waiting in line and many gratuitous hours manifesting cases and doing training for free. All of this for the handsome sum of $200.00 per ESI. The vendors rape and pillage the CI. The only contracts worthy of professional wages are direct federal contracts. Period.

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$200 per ESI is considerably less than we used to pay our CIs in the early to mid 2000s. We also used to pay mileage to the CI.

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That was my point. The pay is paltry and insulting from some of these vendors for national security work. And not providing mileage reimbursements is cheap, wrong, and insulting. The only companies that don’t pay mileage reimbursement to CI’s for this BI work are Perspecta, SCIS, 1 Force, and ISN.

And what do they all have in common? They all are contracted with DCSA.

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The only way I can imagine 1099 CI’s being paid “handsomely” or just generally having a great quality of life is if (as discussed) they’re retired and have stable income and insurance, AND happen to have a highly fuel-efficient car, AND happen to live near a major military base and/or major defense industrial facility with lots of cases at both places. And if they happen to be extremely good at their job and receive minimal RZ’s / Refiles.

MAYBE if all of those boxes are checked, being in this industry isn’t a bad gig. And even then, I don’t know that I’d say being paid “handsomely” is the right expression. The only 1099’s I’ve heard of making over $70k tend to work crazy hours, at which point if you do the math, translates to a very bad hourly rate. There could be a rare unicorn out there who makes a killing without putting in 60 hours weeks constantly, but I’ve never met them.

Disclaimer: Everything I’m talking about is limited to the DCSA world, not sure what life is like on the other contracts.

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I’ve heard great things about direct contracting, agreed. My post was directed at the 1099ers working for the big companies.

Right. It’s a crapshoot. That’s because the vendors take advantage of the CI’s even though they would never admit to it. Proof of that? Why is it so hard to get reimbursed for a Subject Contact? Why have the Subject Interviews, source interviews, and record interviews remained the same at $200.00; $50.00; and $25.00 respectively for these tasks?? These have been the same pricing points for CI’s across the board on DCSA contracts for at least a decade or more. Why doesn’t a vendor reimburse for mileage to an IC? Why should an IC drive for free with no travel or mileage reimbursement? Ridiculous! The reality is that the vendors with DCSA for twenty years have had the upper hand and completely control the field (F/T hourly) and IC because they can. People (IC’s) also are willing to work the cases at these paltry rates because they must be desperate enough to work at these rates. We need more IC’s that hold vendors accountable for these low pay rates. But nobody complains.

Think of a mangy old mutt being kicked in the corner by its abusive owner.

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Absolutely agree. When I left the CI industry I very briefly looked into 1099 work as a side hustle, but it made zero financial sense given the current rates and considering that I’m in a high cost of living area.

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Grossing 90k per year as a 1099 FI while working 40 hour work weeks was relatively easy when there were plenty of clean T5Rs and plenty of opportunities to go TDY with 80-100%+ premiums. Sadly, those days are over and are unlikely to return. But it was great while it lasted . . . .

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Wow. Lively replies! Most of what was said in the replies is true. The vendors are dreadful companies populated by drones concerned with draining as much as they can from the customer (USG/taxpayers). Case quality is a distant second. The welfare of disposable CIs is a more distant third. Fees for ESIs and other items have stayed the same forever. No one pays for refiles, reimburses for miles, paper clips, etc.

BUT: I grossed between $55k and $60k in 2019 and feel like I had a good quality of life. I worked when I wanted. I took my kids where they needed to go. I probably took a month off of work, all told, for vacation and family stuff. And I didn’t have to ask anyone! I didn’t get paid for any either, but I planned ahead and set money aside accordingly. I gave every case my best effort and did not cut any corners. There were some gravy T5R ESIs but there were also pro forma RESI door knocks in the sticks, 45 minutes each way in the car. Two days in a row.

I was not around back in the day - maybe I would be salty, too, if I could hold forth about how things used to be. But for me, for the last few years, it was a good gig.

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Back in the day the CI had to have at least three years of federal background investigation experience (or three years of federal law enforcement experience) to be accepted by OPM. There were also education requirements that no longer exist. This all disappeared when USIS collapsed and the backlog panic started.

My CIs rarely had reopens and only worked when they wanted to work in those days.

Yes…I’ll never forget the days of 2015 and 2016 when Keypoint was hiring hair dressers and massage therapists with no experience to do federal background investigation work as IC’s.

I literally was in shock. :open_mouth:

The barrier to entry in this line of work really is next to nothing. I spent 7.5 years with USIS learning the job and becoming experienced until I became an IC. Most of that long timeframe was because USIS wouldn’t allow me to go IC because they claimed for tax purposes, I couldn’t be an IC and employee during the same calendar year (all lies). USIS lied a lot. I should have been an IC within three years of my hire date which was the standard policy. USIS wanted to control the hourly Investigator.

I’m still an IC and surviving. I’ll reap the benefits as many leave the industry because of their too heavy of reliance upon the old OPM/NBIB…now DCSA contract. I’ve been trying to distance myself from DCSA contract work for years and it’s worked. I’ve remained relevant as an IC without any income from a DCSA vendor. I’ll continue to be successful.

I’ll have you know that I was a LICENSED massage therapist.

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My point was the barrier to entry is too low…we should require more than a 4 year degree in whatever…

Perhaps some online certifications and training that takes weeks or months to certify in investigations would be worthwhile.

One of the reasons why this industry pays so poorly when compared to other government contract work is because of the low barrier to entry. We need more highly qualified and serious investigators and less retired guys with one foot in the water and one foot on the golf course and at the cafe with their retired co-worker buddies from their previous agency.

I know I’ll get some pushback for that but I’ve read so many awful and low quality reports from retired Federal agents over the years and had to go back and clean up their work and fix their mistakes because they simply aren’t experienced enough or pay the price to learn how to be a good career Background Investigator.

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The contracting companies are greedy, sure, but not stupid.

Just as many FI are let go for a cause of some sort as do leave the field after whatever revolution took place for moving on.

An FI background benefits from variety and flexibility - so too does the position. Those who can relate well to subjects and adapt to the position requirements will succeed.

The bar is low because the companies won’t pay for it to be lifted AND the gov contracts won’t insist on anything more for entry level.

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“One of the reasons why this industry pays so poorly when compared to other government contract work is because of the low barrier to entry.”

Agreed, but I also think a chicken or the egg type question is at play here perhaps.

That said, the contracting companies are convinced that they can take anyone with TS eligibility and the ability to follow simple instructions and make them into an investigator and idiot-proof the job through the use of numerous job aids and sometimes mandatory reporting templates.

To me this oversimplifies the role and teaches inexperienced (typically younger) investigators that the entire job is a series of yes/no answers on a flow chart, and that every possible scenario that an FI could ever encounter is somehow covered somewhere by a job aid. It dumbs down the job, and as a result, drives the market value of investigators down too. And the FI’s who can’t cut it get put on a Performance Improvement Plan and driven out the door, so the cycle continues (see previous threads on this site regarding Investigator Churn and Burn for more info on that concept, in one of its forms).

But as long as the contracting companies hold so much power, I doubt things will ever change.

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So are all nbib investigators contractors?

IMO - The real reason the pay is so low is that what OPM/NBIB now DOD wants. If you look at the Wage Determination #2000-0399 for Background Investigators (it is hard to find) you will see the low minimum pay. It is the only WD that is not adjusted for location meaning that the contracting companies are only required to pay the BI in Manhattan, NY the same as the BI in Manhattan, KS. Also, the companies violate the WD constantly and pay Level I or II pay for Level III or IV work. The WD pay has only increased pennies in the last 10 years.

Can you post a web link or copy of this wage determination? I’d be interested to see it. I already did an online search and couldn’t find it.

@PseudoFed

You made a good point about how robotic the companies make these Investigators with job aids and a “check off the box” type investigation. It definitely pigeons holes the average Investigator into this industry and can make him/her successful as long as that person is willing to meet performance metrics and use the job aids.

There’s so much more to this investigative process than anyone really realizes. We should be reading body language and asking questions a different way if we feel people are holding back or perhaps not being truthful. But what are Investigators told…just to plow through that interview with your head down while ensuring that you covered everything on that job aid instead of really LISTENING to your sources and subjects. There is no Annual training done on investigative techniques or listening techniques for this job any longer. They haven’t taught that in a decade or more since USIS quit having training at three year intervals for their experienced Investigators.

Now with DCSA doing everything by telephone, I believe the investigative product is worse and has been dumbed down.

Long gone are the days when the ole OPM/NBIB now DCSA would throw a temper tantrum and perhaps put you through an integrity investigation if an interview was conducted by telephone. Now they throw a fit if you interview someone in person. Heaven forbid you do that! :scream: We wouldn’t want to be professional and interview someone in person and perhaps pick up on some non verbal or perhaps get better issue resolution done since we are there in person. Nope…the old NBIB, now DCSA only employed the telephone policy because of their major backlog they had on their hands from 2015-2018. Now that the backlog has gone away to a manageable number (only because of the mandate for Investigators to do interviews by telephone ), you’d think they’d go back to in person interviews to improve the quality of the investigations.

I obviously understand we are operating in a post pandemic environment and telephone/video use has to be an option for those impacted by COVID but we should be back to in person interview after COVID is more controlled and I doubt that happens now that the horse is out of the barn. I believe telephone interviews and video conference interviews are here to stay. Although note to DCSA: not all agencies think this is a good idea that are doing federal background investigations. They still value the in person interview and the uptick in quality you get by an in person interview.

So what am I getting at? this use of telephone/video conference will continue to also drive down pay because now you can really get anyone to do this job and sit behind a telephone and read from scripted questions. The people driving the bus on this…the folks at DCSA and ODNI are the ones that have turned this industry to what it is today. They are the ones that if they truly cared about quality, would ensure they find the best and brightest and most serious and dedicated investigators in this industry and train them and pay them commensurate with providing those types of quality investigations.

A fair and professional wage for an experienced Investigator with 7-10 years or more of experience should not be paid less than $40 to $45.00/hour. Why then are Investigator with that kind of experience still being paid between $21.00 to $27.00 per hour? I would argue those with 15+ years or more of experience should be paid between $50.00 to $60.00 per hour to conduct investigations.

If the federal government wants to get serious about quality then pay Investigator well for the quality investigations they deliver. If most Investigator only knew what these vendors make on a T5, T5R, T4, T3’s, etc. and then what the Investigator is paid for his paltry $200.00 Subject Interview as an IC and even less than that as an hourly Investigator, you’d be astounded and hopefully a little angry and upset. On most investigations (I am not saying all), these vendors are pocketing one thousand to two to three thousand dollars on T5’s and T4’s even after paying their scopers, reviewers, and Investigators. That’s a pretty good return on investment. So why can’t they pay the Investigator (the actual boots on the ground and revenue earners for the company) a professional wage and an extra ten to fifteen dollars per hour more? They’ll still do plenty well on their return on investment and they’ll be able to keep Investigators happy and loyal to the company. But it’s all about greed and wealth. Until that wage determination is set to a higher level (unsure who sets that) this whole post is a moot point.

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21 - 22 an hour would have been great lol. I was making $17.34 an hour during most of my time at Perspecta