derived us citizenship and what are my chances


#1

I am a derived citizen, I was under 18 when my dad became a US citizen. So, I just used his Naturalization Certificate to get my US Passport. I am about to fill out my paperwork for Secret clearance: So want to know if I really need my Citizen Certificate, or US Passport is enough. And what should I put under that column in the form? I looked into applying for my own certificate, but N600 processing time is 6-12 months, and I do not want to miss on this opportunity which I worked so hard for.


#2

does not need a naturalization certificate because he already IS a citizen.


#3

I know you don’t want to hear this, but you will have to apply and get your Naturalization Certificate. I’d do it as soon as possible, and maybe get your congressman to help you expedite the process…


#4

He does not need a naturalization certificate because he already IS a citizen.

Same here. Born in Canada to a Scottish father, we moved to America when I was 3, he became a citizen before I was 18, parents divorced. I went with my dad so I am a citizen, sister went with our Canadian mom and she had to be naturalized. I have used my US passport with 100% success, even getting the red and black passports as well. No trouble with SCI tickets or working for a three letter agency either.


#5

thank you! another question for you then, what should i put there for number, as it is an online form, and keep giving me the error because of that.


#6

This was discussed about a month ago here. Adjudicator wants proof of citizenship other than U.S. Passport

You really need a naturalization certificate. You can put a random number, but the adjudicator is likely going to ask for it. If you do not have a birth certificate you need a naturalization or a certificate of citizenship.


#7

It may seem like is true . . . However, as noted below, we have seen several people in the same situation required to get documentation for their naturalization despite the fact that it was “derived” from their parent’s naturalization.

We tend to give advice based on experience not logic or what we would consider “right”.


#8

Well he can get naturalized if he wants, the government will be happy to take his money. I applied for naturalization and went through the interview where they make sure I know US history and such. At my second interview before the ceremony it came out that I have derived citizenship, so they told me “You’re already American. Go home.” So I did. They kept the fee I paid them however. Point is that he IS a citizen, he doesn’t need a naturalization certificate any more than a native born person does. Hey if you have an Irish parent or grandparent you ARE Irish. Go get your passport. Same with an Italian or Canadian parent.

The Certificate of Citizenship is something he can get however. I agree that government paperwork is weird. Like your drivers license proves your age but if it is expired no one will accept it for age verification. Explain that one.


#9

As I said . . . You can argue that all that you want. But, if asked during an investigation for his naturalization certificate, he very well may have to produce one.

Remember, no one has a RIGHT to a clearance. It’s up to you to show that it is in the interest of national security to grant you access to classified information. Anyone is welcome to try to convince the investigator or the adjudicator asking for the documentation that you don’t need to produce it. My guess is that’s not the fastest way to a positive adjudication.

I’m not arguing that he is NOT a citizen . . . A derived citizen is STILL a naturalized citizen. There is still a burden of proof on them, fair or not.


#10

I guess it went better in my interview, but the paperwork verifying the law was actually out of a USMC recruiting manual, with references. but I can see how it can be misunderstood as it is rather uncommon. Plus who wants to have to look at a divorce certificate and decide, the folks usually want one form to answer everything.

I remember looking at my online file and seeing the entry under citizenship changing. I’d have to make a phone call and clear it up. They finally changed “Naturalized” to “Derived/Naturalized” for the same of the computer program working right. Some people also thought Derived only applied to American Indians.

Yes you are right, the burden of proof is on me, but if pressed I’d probably go the cert of Citizenship route.


#11

No USMC recruiting manual has anything to do with clearance adjudication. In fact, several of the people who were here with this exact problem were ex-military and had used their passport as proof of citizenship in order to enlist.


#12

Your process is simplified if you are listed on one of your parents’ (in this case, your father’s) naturalization paperwork. This practice seems to have been discontinued over the years.

You can also list your father’s naturalization certificate (date/issuer/number) on the SF86 (SCA). USCIS “should” have your information attached to the father’s information. Unfortunately, I have found many times over the years that people are designated as “inconclusive record search” which is the industry speak “no record found” on cases where I am the investigator. During these investigtions, the Subject is asked to provide citizenship proof - which the US passport doesn’t count.


#13

The fact that derived citizenship was already in a government document, even if just a USMC manual, helped show the interviewer I was not making up facts on the spot. I never meant the manual to be authoritarian, it just happened to explain derivation better than I could. I still have that paper somewhere too. It assisted greatly to help initiate a long career. When I enlisted in the Army I was 18 and thought I was still a legal immigrant with a green card. I’m sure had I knows I had citizenship at initial enlistment things would have been different. They did accept my newly acquired US passport for citizenship verification come reenlistment and when I started the clearance process. However this was 1986 and may be more for historical analysis only as requirements may have likely changed since then.