Hi!
First time poster here. May I ask a question please?
Has anyone here been denied their MRPT after being re-investigated? What was the process to respond after the denial? Has anyone here ever lost their job because of it? I looking for real life examples and not statistics on the Internet.
Regards,
Merlin
If your public trust is revoked you will likely be removed from your position (fired). You see, maintaining a favorably adjudicated investigation is a condition of your employment.
Regarding appeal - you’ll be given a proposed removal which will detail your appeal rights and due process. Good luck.
Thanks! If anyone else has any experience with this process please chime in. Dave do you know of any information on the web that would show a case where an employee was actually fired? I am looking for case studies as part of my university work.
Try as I might I cannot find any cases for a public trust, I have found a few for people that had secret clearances.
Merlin
DOHA hears appeals for clearances, public trust positions and CAC eligibility. Here is a PT case:
Without further information, it is difficult to respond to your post. For example, what was the nature of the revocation. Another, it depends on your employment status (probationary vs tenure) and whether you are a contractor employee or government employee. DOHA cases are mostly contractors. For Government employees, I can imagine Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB) might have something… but that depends on factors that I listed.
If you really want to find out more, you might want to consult an attorney with proper credentials.
Mark is there a place to find case decisions for government civilian personnel?
Thank you for the response. I do not have any specifics because this is a research project.
Thank you for this response Marko. If I am reading the case correctly, it appears that the individual is a contractor. We are also researching the federal civilian workforce and trying to get data points on how many public trust employees were removed during a re investigation.
Can you point me in this direction?
There is no one source for that…you would have to go to each agency and ask for that information under a FOIA request or peruse MSPB and DIstrict court cases in which an appeal was filed.
I have a question about the woman who was denied a public trust clearance due to her financial issues. The equip she completed, is it assumed the equip was for the position she was applying to? The reason I am asking is that my L clearance was revoked due to unsuccessfully passing a 10 year background investigation for my agency. I am now trying to apply for positions requiring a public trust clearance and want to know what my chances are.
The reasons for denial of your re investigation, may impact your application for Public Trust if you have not mitigated these concerns.
I have applied and interviewed for about 6 positions since my clearance (L clearance which I believe is equivalent or close to a secret clearance) was revoked. I tried to mitigate (with no luck) and appealed (again, with no luck) so I am trying real hard to reenter the Federal workplace with a Public Trust Clearance. I was given the option to resign or be removed. I resigned. I don’t know if my case will be looked at from a Federal agency looking to potentially hire me. While I was completely honest during my hearing and my appeals, the responses always twisted what I said and made me sound like a hard core thug. I just want to know what to do, and/or where to go from here. Should I wait to apply to a Public Trust position? Or, how do I resolve my situation? I need some advice and guidance on how to proceed. This ordeal is taking a tool on me.
Without knowing the reason behind the removal, I would not have an answer for you. As stated before, the same reasons for removal will have to be mitigated for a PT.
You should be able to apply for non-sensitive (public trust) positions. The questions on SF-85 are not the same as SF-86, which is for national security positions. Chances are you might not need to disclose the involuntary separation and the reason for it with exception of the OF-306 question no. 12 (I believe). Additionally, SF-85 does not ask you about your prior clearance. Nonetheless, some agencies might have you to fill out SF-86 instead of SF-85 for public trust positions. So, you will have to make some decisions. Keep in mind, you will need to meet the suitability determination for a public trust position tho.
I think we will be able to give you better advice if we knew the nature of the involuntary termination and the clearance revocation. Regardless, you should be able to apply for public trust positions.
Thank you for your response AWoodhull. Below is a timeline and an explanation of the background for my unfortunate situation. Needless to say, I have had a very stressful time regarding all this. After reading below, please ask me anything for clarity purposes or otherwise. I hope it is not too lengthy. Also, I have read that number 12 question on the 306 and I need to know to what extent do I reveal. It is kind of complicated and goes back around 10 years and then some.
I’ve seen other’s use timelines, so I feel the best way to describe my ordeal is through a timeline as well. I hope this can be included. I want to reenter the Federal workforce. I am currently 57.
2007 I used marijuana one time while vacationing in Jamaica. I did work for the Federal Government at the time and did hold a clearance.
December 2008 I applied for a position with the FBI and submitted an eQUIP. I did not include that I smoked marijuana in 2007 while vacationing in Jamaica. I also did not include my marijuana use during my teenager years because that occurred 25 years prior to completing the eQUIP, I was not proud of what I did as a teenager and was not who I was in 2008.
1/14/09 I had a polygraph interview with an FBI agent and admitted to my prior drug use as a teenager (1970’s) up to the age of 23 and also admitted to smoking marijuana in Jamaica in 2007. Since I indulged in marijuana use within the three year time frame required by the FBI to be eligible for a position, I was not hired. I was completely honest with the Federal agent and he was very hostile to me and I was extremely nervous during this interview. It felt more like an interrogation.
Fast forward nearly 10 years, I submitted an eQUIP on June 8, 2015 as part of a routine re-investigation of my eligibility to maintain my “L” clearance. I did not realize that in reporting to the FBI in 2008, it was not equivalent to reporting in an SF 86 for a re-investigation. The language catching my attention was “did you EVER use drugs other than previously listed” – and as such, I thought I already reported all my drug incidences. The other question in the SF 86 regarding drug use was, “have you used drugs or substances in the last 7 years”. I answered “no” and this was true.
Due to an OPM breach of PII information of Federal Employees, there was a half in all background investigations and mine was one of them. In October of 2016, I went to Jamaica again, and again I used marijuana again. I had already submitted my SF 86 so I could not include this information as my usage occurred after.
December, 2016 I was interviewed by OPM as part of the background investigation. I initially did not mention my 2007 use of marijuana because I thought it was already revealed during the interview with the FBI agent back in 2009.
In January, 2017 the OPM investigator asked to meet me again whereas she said a name check was performed and my name appeared. She confronted me about my use of marijuana in Jamaica in 2007. At this point, my nerves are completely frazzled as my past will not go away. I told the investigator everything and admitted to using marijuana while vacationing in Jamaica in 2016. I did not hide any information from her and revealed my remorse. It is true that I did use marijuana on two occasions nearly 10 years apart but both times were while holding a security clearance. The investigator asked me how often I used marijuana. I originally told her every couple of months from age 18 to age 23, and then every five years from age 23 until the 2007 trip to Jamaica. I called the investigator back that night to tell her I wanted to change my statement. It took three days to see her again and I told her that I did not use marijuana at all between my trip to Jamaica in 2007 and my trip to Jamaica in 2016. I changed my statement because it was true. I was busy raising my family and was not interested in marijuana at all anymore. I told her I did not know why I told her I used marijuana every 5 years.
June, 2017, I was removed from my job (indefinite suspension). Escorted out of the building.
I hired attorneys to mitigate my case and lost.
I appealed and lost that too.
I was given the choice of being “removed” or I could “resign”. I resigned on 8/31/18.
This is an extreme hardship on me. I was completely honest with the OPM investigator. I never failed a random drug test, never had performance issues. My 15 year career just went away in a blink of an eye. I am trying to get a Public Trust Clearance and need advise on how to mitigate where I am at. What’s the time frame I am looking at? How serious is what I have done?
I’m sorry but the only remorse that I hear is remorse that you got caught. You think that “being honest with the investigator” mitigate smoking grass while you were cleared? The first time could be a mistake but by the second time you had already had trouble over this and you should have known better. You’re excuses about “having already reported it” don’t fly either. You were a long time employee of the FBI! You should be able to understand a question that asks, "did you ever . . . " It doesn’t say, "Since your last SF86 . . . "
Your career didn’t go away “in the blink of an eye.” It took years and repeated mistakes for this happen to you. I’m not trying to be mean but you are exactly who the process is designed to weed out. You show poor judgement and poor self control. You have to see how this affects the trust that the government puts in you.
Never resign - always let them fire you… future advice…
I think you should go through with the public trust positions. SF-85 doesnt ask for those things; however, SF-85P and SF-86 do.
As for question #12 of the OF-306, it really depends on what was on your SF-50 under Box 5. There are like 6 boxes. You will need to read the codes there and research these codes. Also, read Box 24 as it shoudl tell you your tenure status.
My thinking is that… if you were a tenured employee, did you receive a notification of adverse action or something of such? Is it documented on your SF-50?
The reason why I asked these stuff because you may be considered voluntary resignation rather than involuntary resignation. That is a difference.
Either way, learn your lesson and move on.
No EdFarmerIII. I did not work with the FBI. I applied to a position with the FBI. The position was contingent on a polygraph interview. I never smoked grass while employed with the Federal Government except those two stupid times in Jamaica, i.e., 2007 and 2016. Two isolated incidences and that is all. Yes, I am sure you are saying that was two too many times and you are right. I admit my bad judgement and believe me, if I could take them back, I would. I am paying dearly for my stupidity now. I was caught up in the atmosphere and indulged. On the 2015 SF86, whether you believe me or not, I struggled over the question which asked, “Have you EVER illegally used or otherwise been involved with a drug or controlled…other than previously listed?” The other than previously listed had me struggling for days. I honestly did not know how to answer that question. I went through a horrific ordeal with the FBI agent. He was very aggressive with me and scared the crap out of me. I have never been in trouble for anything, ever, in my entire life. I pay the IRS first and ask questions later to prevent trouble! I had my fun with marijuana as a teenager. I grew out of it. Period. End of story. I got married, had 4 kids, started up and had a business for 11 years while raising my kids, I had no time NOR interest in using marijuana. Like I mentioned earlier, these were two isolated instances. If I had known that I would be fired from my job in 2017 because of not revealing information during an interviewing and not revealing information that I should have on my SF86 back in 2008, I would have gone to a security officer immediately. I do not like trouble or drama. I consider myself a considerable law ibiding (sp?) citizen. Getting removed from my position at the age of 56 and being single and needing to pay a mortgage has taken a devastating tool on my nerves and I try every single day to be strong and not break down. I wish I wish I wish the FBI notified my agency (NRC) of my falsifying information on the 2008 SF86 and gotten fired back then. I wouldn’t be living my life new scared to death every single day. It’s not fun, believe me! Sorry for my rant but I am a good girl that IS remorseful for those two incidences. I just want my career back. I don’t want to lose everything I worked so hard for. Again sorry. I’ll stop now.
My SF-50 has a 317 in Box 5-A, RPM in box 5-C and REG 715.202 in box 5-D. My tenure is 1. I did not receive an adverse action along with my SF-50. The remarks just talk about benefits, life, health, leave payment, etc.