I was issued a misdemeanor citation in 2002 or 2003 for using a fake ID to get into a concert at a bar. I was not attempting to purchase alcohol. I was not fingerprinted or detained. I am unsure how to address this, as it was more than seven years ago, but I can also see how some investigators might see this as “involving” alcohol. I am fine disclosing it, but I can’t even remember who was playing and what exact year it was, so it would probably take some legwork to get the month/year right. I have not been arrested for any alcohol-related offense since.
Should I disclose this under the “have you ever” language of alcohol/drug-related offenses? Thanks.
I would state it to the best of your memory, indicating 'either '02 or ‘03’ and be as open about it as you are here (citation, no prints, not detained).
It’s a nothing issue, so detailing it is harmless. When they find it (likely), they’ll come back to you asking questions if you haven’t listed it; may as well get it out there at the beginning.
@CIndelicato - agreed
@HarryHood - your intent was to use the I.D. To purchase alcohol, list it.
People go to bars for shows all of the time without intending to drink. If that’s where the band that you want to see is playing, that’s where you tried to go.
@dave019, it’s your opinion
@EdFarmerIII, it’s your opinion
@Cindelicato, it’s your opinion
@RIRO4I4O, Sound advice
Using fake credentials to illegally enter a bar does not involve alcohol? I disagree.
Let us all use common sense for a moment and go back to our late teens and early 20’s - the folks who had fake I.D’s used them primarily for one thing and one thing only, alcohol.
No . . . It doesn’t involve alcohol . . . He didn’t have alcohol and wasn’t charged with any type of drinking offense . . . the charge is what’s in question. Even if he were trying to buy alcohol, that’s not what he was charged with as far as what he has said. If you get pulled over because you were weaving while driving drunk and you are given a ticket for an improper lane change, do you have report that?
I will go back to MY teens and tell you that, as a musician, I snuck into many bars in order to see bands that I liked.
@EdFarmerIII - ok, that’s your opinion.
@CIndelicato - is correct.
@HarryHood - given the ambiguity of your situation just list it to avoid any perceived material falsification. As @CIndelicato noted, it’s a non-issue and by listing it you are opening up about it prior to being confronted, that’s a plus for you.
Thanks, everyone. I am inclined to report it. Was able to track down the date after talking to some friends (Nov, 2003… 8 days before my 21st birthday, actually). I cannot remember the exact wording of the citation… it might have had some language in the statute or the notes about entering an alcohol-serving establishment. It seems the downside of listing is minimal, so will plan to do so.
@HarryHood - good decision. You’ll be fine.
Take the time to dig into the case. You have the right to pull your own court records. Most are even digitized at this point so you might be able to pull it off the court clerk’s website. If not, just call them and ask how you can get a prior record. They will know where to point you to. This way you can give the exact court filing language, the exact charge and other information.
Providing such information is, in my opinion, far more helpful for your case than the offense will hurt you. It shows you are owning up to a past mistake, have learned from it and have no problem being open about it with others. (One of the major reasons adjudicating bodies view criminal offense negatively is because of the potential for it to be used against you in a blackmail situation. Usually the offense itself is of little consequence unless it’s habitual or certain white collar crimes. - Being up front about it shows you’re not afraid of it and is unlikely to be used against you for blackmail)
You are only required to list an offense relating to alcohol or drugs if in fact it is an offense relating to alcohol or drugs. Using a fake ID to enter a bar isn’t an offense relating to alcohol unless you were charged or cited for an offense relating to alcohol. This appears to be an offense relating to your integrity and judgement. Did you use alcohol at the bar underage and did the charge have any language in the citation that indicated you were also being charged with an alcohol related offense? Or did you just enter the bar illegally underage using a fake ID illegally to watch a concert and not drink any alcohol whatsoever?
You aren’t required to list this citation it if it is outside of the timeframe being requested to list on the Security Questionnaire. Since alcohol or drugs is an ever question, you’d list an offense relating to alcohol or drugs in your lifetime. The misdemeanor fake ID charge is relating to a citation within the last seven years for a criminal proceeding against you. If it occurred outside the seven years and wasn’t originally a felony charge then you aren’t required to list it no matter how bad your conscience wants to disclose it.
Pay very close attention to what is being asked of you on the form. In this scenario, you wouldn’t go into any details or answer yes to a fake ID to enter a bar illegally unless the offense also included an alcohol related charge for drinking underage, minor consumption or possession, etc. If in fact you were never charged with an offense relating to alcohol in your lifetime as the question has asked you…”have you ever been charged with an offense relating to alcohol or drugs”, then you’d answer the question as No. Using a fake ID is not a charge relating to alcohol unless you were charged at the bar also for an alcohol related offense.
Everyone on here gave you poor advice. I’m coming from the perspective of someone that has gone over that SF-86 hundreds and hundreds of times (that number is probably in the thousands) with people as an Investigator. The moderator on this website should “nip” in the bud any poor advice coming from uneducated opinions otherwise it complicates the already backlogged BI industry with everyone listing that they sampled a grape at the grocery store just to clear their conscience.
Answer the questions truthfully based upon the timeframes being asked of you. Answer the questions exactly as they are asked. If the question asks you to list charges or offenses related to alcohol in your lifetime, list only alcohol related offenses in the question where you were “charged”. You wouldn’t list a Fake ID charge that isn’t related to an alcohol charge unless an alcohol charge was involved.
Excuse me . . . Not everyone here provided poor advice . . . Not everyone agreed with you but some did . . .
Why can’t we all just get along?!
Can you provide any insight or explanation why I am wrong? Or are you going to continue to act as an expert with all of your wonderful opinions you share on this blog? What are you credentials to give such expert advice? Are you a current/former Investigator, adjudicator, or FSO?
It would help to know what your expertise is to challenge a person with experience that I have in conducting the actual work that you so readily and easily give free advice concerning that work that I perform. State your expertise and credentials otherwise you need to take a backseat to more qualified people that actually have the knowledge, skills, and abilities to provide the advice you so readily and frequently give to others.
Why would I? We agree tthat is does not need to be reported and gave pretty much the same advice.
Just a reminder - this is a friendly forum to provide feedback and informal advice. If you disagree with what someone else says, back it up with the link to an article or a reference to the policy or adjudicative criteria - but don’t make it personal.
The clearance process is inherently individual - that’s why no one can ever say with certainty how an issue will be adjudicated.
Stick to throwing in your experience, but don’t criticize the comments of others, please!
-Lindy Kyzer - your (sometimes) forum moderator and your always editor at www.clearancejobs.com.
Unfortunately, this whole security clearance process is inherently unfriendly and adversarial, as well as very personal.
The situation isn’t helped either by the fact that so many of those who submit questions are clearly and simply not disclosing completely the facts surrounding the past incidents about which they have concerns.