IC Poly and Adjudication Process


#223

It isn’t, or how else could be explained the “success” of all the notorious spies of recent years who were all able to penetrate the supposedly “impenetrable” IC vetting process?


#225

Of course, within the IC at least, the vetting process is not something which [the Congress] has any control over.


#226

First . . . When and where did anyone claim that the process is “impenetrable”?

Second . . . Of course congress has a say . . .


#227

I worked at a FBI project and received my CI-Poly adjudication on Oct. 2017. After my employment was ended May, 2018, I was debriefed on May 2018 too. However, my FSO went into both JPAS and SC and could not find any records about my FBI-sponsored CI-Poly data. FSO indeed found my TS/SCI records In SC dated back May 2010. Where should FSO look for FBI-sponsored poly investigation records?

How should I get a proof that I indeed had a CI-Poly in the past.


#228

Each of the “scattered” castles report to scattered castles, at least in theory and intent. Each also maintains their own database as well. Though I have not worked for the FBI I imagine they are like the other alphabet agencies and have “FBI only” closed loop systems. If you have no doubt you had one and I believe you…I would apply for jobs and state you had one. The burden isn’t yours to prove. If they wish to verify an FBI item they need to contact the FBI. It is possible you could obtain this information with a Freedom of Information request. I assume successful resolution of any CI items on this Poly?


#229

@amberbunny After speaking with my FSO, I believe that I’m in adjudication now for an IC position. I imagine that you work with most of the IC members, so I thought I’d pose a question: In your experience, does having recent and successfully adjudicated clearance eligibility (i.e., TS/SCI within 6 months) for one IC organization at all expedite the adjudication process for a comparable position at another IC organization (i.e., sister organization) that requires the same clearance and access level?

I have read about reciprocity of granted clearances, but haven’t seen anything about recent and successfully adjudicated clearance eligibility determinations.

Thanks!


#230

I’m wondering if anyone has any experience with something similar to my situation and whether or not I’m about to be denied. I had TS/SCI for twenty years. Took a job that required CI poly. It was inconclusive. Had to go back a 2nd time, still inconclusive but was cleared about a year after the 2nd poly. About 10 months after that I was questioned by a special investigator and told to retake the poly. My SSBI was also due at that time and had just been submitted. Did the poly, was inconclusive, went back again and it was inconclusive. From first poly to last was 27 months. During that entire period I was read in. I decided to leave the job as the stress over the poly was killing me. The DoD picked up my TS collateral. Then 4 months later the old agency entered a LOJ in JPASS. The DoD kept me read in for another 3 months but then read me out as it was taking too long to clear the LOJ. It’s been 4 months since the LOJ. My FSO says I’m under adjudication by the previous non DoD agency and will read me in once the adjudication is done. She says she’s never seen a LOJ take this long to clear. Scattered Castles says my clearance is “Terminated.” I spoke to an attorney about items that came up in the poly. He said none of those items that were tripping me up in the poly were grounds for denial. That I was read out and that my clearance was terminated concerns me. I don’t know if it’s because of the poly or the fact that my SSBI was closed in Aug 2011.


#231

Generally speaking, most portions of the BI are trusted by most agencies. There is a strong degree of parochialism where certain aspects aren’t accepted. The more important factor is time since BI closed. If it is a matter of weeks or 2 months…I imagine most would be acceptable. If it is 2 years old, that leaves a long period where misconduct may have occurred.And requires another deep dig. Each agency then owning their process gets to set their degrees of acceptance. Meaning? “it depends.” Never satisfying to get that answer. In using the whole person concept if all other factors are clean, I imagine that informs their thoughts as to repeat certain aspects. If your credit is historically on the low end of acceptable they will want a fresh pull. If you are always 810 or higher, zero debt, I imagine that part would be taken as an indication of how you live your financial life. But again that is but one part of whole person and outstanding credit doesn’t’ mean non criminal.


#232

Thanks, @amberbunny. My last BI closed in September 2017, was adjudicated in January 2018, and the new BI at the new organization was initiated in late-March 2018. Interesting that you bring up finances because that was the only change that I can think of that worries me a little: I just graduated from my second masters program and I have $200k in student loan debt as well as about $25k in revolving debt stemming from my undergrad and two grad degrees at expensive institutions. I am in repayment and on top of all my debt, but I was worried that the amount of debt could be problematic for this specific IC org. Any thoughts?

Thanks again.


#233

The CIA is one stark example where clearances and BI’s from other agencies are not automatically transferable.


#234

Well…that could be viewed as significant debt. But the key to it not being a clearance issue is being in and following a repayment plan. Some folks remain in school simply to keep the deferment period alive. And add a lot more debt. No matter how you slice it you will be in a repayment period for a long time. But as long as you faithfully make payments and all other payments for life (housing, utilities, car loan, insurances, etc) It should not be an issue. If you get into late pay, slow pay, missed payments…it can be viewed as a problem.


#235

Thank you for your insight. Your response piqued my interest, however: Is being in deferment or a grace period during the BI (not yet in repayment) going to cause issues for adjudication? Since the BI concluded, I have entered into repayment, should I inform my FSO that I went from deferment into repayment?

Also, in your experience, are there certain IC orgs that are more strict on financial issues than others?


#236

Every summary of security clearance issues I’ve seen for the past few years shows that financial concerns are the number one reason people are not granted a clearance. This is not just for IC agencies. I dont think anybody is being lenient on this topic, but some financial issues can be mitigated. It really depends on the particulars of each individual situation.


#237

I wouldn’t worry about reporting the move into repayment period. But let the investigator know once you meet with them. They all use the same adjudicative standards, however they are all up for interpretation. I think finances are very hard to disqualify one for, and it is easily rectified by getting into repayment plans. Aim for at least a 650 credit score and history. Always protect your credit score. Right or wrong your car insurance, health insurance, and clearance all use it as a factor to determine your risk level. The lower the credit score, the worse they are in health, driving and other issues…or so each agency using that information claims. Assuming your degrees are in advanced subject matter: engineering, law, medical, etc…you can land jobs paying the correct amount to service that debt. I recommend being aggressive and pounding on it. I have met a few professional students along the way ending up with degrees not paying off, but they cost a lot of money. What is the value in education? For some it was a great life expanding experience, even if it doesn’t pay cash dividends.


#238

Thanks. I didn’t know they looked at credit scores. The triple credit report that the investigator showed me didn’t have a FICO score; although, I know mine is well above average.

I think because I already was found eligible for a TS clearance by the sister agency, I wasn’t too worried about the clearance portion of the adjudication — I am more concerned about what impact massive student loan debt would have on suitability, seeing as this particular agency tends to send out a lot of suitability denials.


#239

I like to think of paying off debt as a sort of reverse invrstment. If I’m paying off principal on a 6% student loan, that is essentially an investment with a guaranteed 6% return for life.


#240

From your recent post about cryptocurrency’s effect on clearance, I was pretty certain as to which agency you were applying; however, the timeline here seems a little different than what would be expected of this particular agency, specifically the fact that the BI came before the poly, and the med/psych appointments were not clumped with the poly appointment.

If you don’t mind me asking, which agency is this? If you don’t feel comfortable disclosing, that’s no problem.


#241

I think that I have a fairly good idea too!


#242

Well, certainly the IC agencies themselves like to boast of the supposedly flawless nature of their vetting and BI process.

Congress, as far as I can see, tends to give the IC virtually carte blanche.


#243

Actually, most DoD positions do not require a polygraph. The ones related to the IC (DIA, NGA) do, but most others do not.