IC Poly and Adjudication Process

Anti is correct. You are free to withdraw at any stage. Notifying the FSO is all it should take. If you get called again, tell the poly staff you are no longer processing for the job.

Anti, my comment above is intended only to people seeking to learn countermeasures. If you read them, you can act on them and if you do…it can be seen as taking countermeasures actively…as opposed to passively. I for one never stop to think about my breathing…bring to my attention and I can’t breathe without thinking about it…or if you bring attention to my elbows…I don’t think about them…until you mention them. My client trusts the Poly so for now my position is I get no choice. Deal with and live with them, hating them all along but accepting it is what I must do to earn the pay I want in this area.

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@Nut

So, may I ask what IC agency it is: Langley or Ft. Meade?

I’ll be having my second poly in a couple of weeks. My first was inconclusive… What did they say after your second one came back inconclusive and after said 2nd poly came back inconclusive; they still conducted your BI?

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@amberbunny,

There are valid reasons for those who face polygraph screening to educate themselves not only about polygraph procedure, but about countermeasures as well. I realize that this is a sensitive topic, but it must be borne in mind that 1) polygraph screening has absolutely no scientific basis, 2) telling the truth does not increase one’s chances of passing the polygraph, 3) not using polygraph countermeasures does not reduce the risk that one will be accused of using countermeasures.

By educating oneself about polygraph procedure and countermeasures (whether one chooses to employ such or not), one can avoid some of the pitfalls that can lead to either a false positive outcome or a false accusation of countermeasure use.

I realize that professionally, you are not in a position to advise anyone to research polygraphy or polygraph countermeasures. Were you to do so, your security clearance would be revoked and you’d lose your job. However, it does not follow from this that it is unwise for those who face polygraph screening to educate themselves about polygraphy.

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@AntiPolygraph.org, then where is that fine line of educating yourself and NOT (or at least being accused of) employing countermeasures?

NOT including applying for an IC position, this will be my 2nd poly I’ve taken for employment. The first was for a local municipality— i can only assume the two aren’t mutually exclusive?

If you educate yourself about polygraphy, you can learn certain behaviors to avoid that are likely to bring an accusation of attempted countermeasures. For example, breathing slowly and regularly and/or deeply is likely to bring an accusation of attempted countermeasures. The same goes for physical movement.

One other thing that’s very likely to bring an accusation of attempted countermeasures is telling your polygraph operator that you’ve researched polygraphy. Anyone who spends even a little time researching the polygraph will quickly learn that it’s pseudoscience. Polygraph operators want naive sources who believe that the machine can read their minds. Anyone who knows that what they do for a living is a fraud is perceived as a threat.

If you actually learn how to use polygraph countermeasures and in fact use them, you are unlikely to be accused of using countermeasures because the federal polygraph community has no ability to detect the kinds of countermeasures explained in sources such as The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. That this is so is borne out by U.S. government training materials leaked to the AntiPolygraph site.

Another testament to the U.S. government’s frustration over the public availability of information on how to easily pass (or beat) the polygraph (and its inability to detect them) is Operation Lie Busters, a federal criminal investigation that targeted for entrapment individuals who offered instruction on polygraph countermeasures.

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Any chance you can expand on zero tolerance for Guideline H? Is it the past 7-10 years or lifetime for a contractor sponsored by Langley? Applicant is turning 35 and experimented in high school and has not since.

@Trey3…I’ve only recently been following your journey. Is your 2nd poly scheduled for this month? I’m still waiting on my first one but just finished my subject interview last week

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@Rkf4ever

Yes, in a couple of weeks.

May I ask what location (agency) your applying for: Langley/Ft. Meade?

(I have yet to have a subject interview)

I am sure there are some law enforcement positions with FBI, DEA, ATF etc where this may be the case, but I have not heard of any IC agencies with such a policy. And I tried to quote @EdFarmerIII but screwed it up somehow

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@Trey3 Ft.Meade. I’m still at the start of my timeline so sounds like I have a long way to go.

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@Rkf4ever, yes and NO… when I went last month, there were people who just got started In August 2018 and were already in their Poly/psych stage. You never know. But be prepared for a long waiting time. I’ve been at this since 2017.

Good luck!

@amberbunny and @AntiPolygraph.org

I knew there was something I forgot to ask:

So, in a couple of weeks IF I “pass” this 2nd poly… would I then be accused of countermeasures? Or for my sake, is it just best that I come back “inconclusive…” (which will most likely happen) yet again?

If you pass, you pass. Normally the second chance they will tell you if you need to come back or not. Just because you pass the poly, doesnt mean that you get the job either.

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@velcroTech, needless to say this entire process is frustrating.

Actually, I think you asked essentially that question. As @velcroTech noted, if you pass, you pass. That is the best possible outcome for you. If you’re accused of having used countermeasures, you won’t pass.

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@Trey3 thanks for the luck. Same to you. Ironically I just scheduled my poly this morning for later this month. When will my nerves ever go back to normal with this process lol

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@Rkf4ever, congrats!

Honestly, I don’t know… mine are still shot just thinking about it… and I KNOW what’s going to be asked of me.

But, still, I wish you nothing but the the best of luck!

(May I ask the position?)

@AntiPolygraph.org, even with that said… is it safe to assume that an “inconclusive” is still better than being accused of countermeasures or failing? Ie, if the readings come back the same?

(I promise not to bother you anymore…lol)

Yes, another inconclusive is better than being accused of countermeasures (which is the worst possible outcome) or failing (the second worst possible outcome).

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@AntiPolygraph.org… thank you!

I promise not to bother you again… until… I do. :wink: