@amberbunny, you mentioned earlier being able to discuss my side or feelings throughout the poly process. But if I don’t pass any of the polys, how am I supposed to do that? I have yet to even meet with my BI.
Good point. Certainly you can be stopped at many different off ramps. Some agencies clearly use Poly to screen out applicants. My client conducts the BI, followed by Poly. You can be eliminated at the BI…I have had calls telling me chances are slim and we cancel processing and I have done so. They can also get to the Poly and quit or show real deception measurements. You will have extreme anxiety, heart pounding, breathing out of rythem or any number of stress indicators to include pauses between answering certain questions. Normally what you think they are measuring, they aren’t. So if there are questions post poly…they will call you for an interview to determine if there is an explanation for the nervous readings outside of their definition of the norm. If it makes sense and is logical and no other indicator is there to show otherwise…you can get “cleared” in that interview.
@amberbunny, you’re a wealth of information.
I’d like to think that it NEVER comes to that for me, but if it does… I’d definitely like the chance to defend my anxiety.
Thanks again for ALL helpful information.
I would note that over the years, we have heard from many who regret not having researched polygraphy beforehand, and none who regret having educated themselves in advance.
@AntiPolygraph.org, who would I need to contact to stop the clearance process? I’ve already sent an email to the contracting company’s FSO to declare I’m no longer interested in the job.
Would I also need to contact the
a.) The poly scheduler (who keeps calling)
Thank you again for your help
I think that by contacting the contractor’s Facility Security Officer, you have taken all necessary and appropriate action. Of course, if the polygraph scheduler calls again, I would notify him or her of the changed situation.
Anti is correct. You are free to withdraw at any stage. Notifying the FSO is all it should take. If you get called again, tell the poly staff you are no longer processing for the job.
Anti, my comment above is intended only to people seeking to learn countermeasures. If you read them, you can act on them and if you do…it can be seen as taking countermeasures actively…as opposed to passively. I for one never stop to think about my breathing…bring to my attention and I can’t breathe without thinking about it…or if you bring attention to my elbows…I don’t think about them…until you mention them. My client trusts the Poly so for now my position is I get no choice. Deal with and live with them, hating them all along but accepting it is what I must do to earn the pay I want in this area.
I did two polys for an IC spot and both were inconclusive. My poly was completed approximately 8 months ago and i found out today my BI was finished (not sure when though). Other than being asked to forward on some medical documents, nothing since. I called my PO who could not say if I was in adjudication or not.
If there was going to be an issue with the poly, would they have let me know by now? Or no way really to know? I’m seeing the 18 month estimate from poly to clearance if no issues. Just wondering if they would zap me now if there were issues.
Edit: spelling and add info.
So, may I ask what IC agency it is: Langley or Ft. Meade?
I’ll be having my second poly in a couple of weeks. My first was inconclusive… What did they say after your second one came back inconclusive and after said 2nd poly came back inconclusive; they still conducted your BI?
There are valid reasons for those who face polygraph screening to educate themselves not only about polygraph procedure, but about countermeasures as well. I realize that this is a sensitive topic, but it must be borne in mind that 1) polygraph screening has absolutely no scientific basis, 2) telling the truth does not increase one’s chances of passing the polygraph, 3) not using polygraph countermeasures does not reduce the risk that one will be accused of using countermeasures.
By educating oneself about polygraph procedure and countermeasures (whether one chooses to employ such or not), one can avoid some of the pitfalls that can lead to either a false positive outcome or a false accusation of countermeasure use.
I realize that professionally, you are not in a position to advise anyone to research polygraphy or polygraph countermeasures. Were you to do so, your security clearance would be revoked and you’d lose your job. However, it does not follow from this that it is unwise for those who face polygraph screening to educate themselves about polygraphy.
@AntiPolygraph.org, then where is that fine line of educating yourself and NOT (or at least being accused of) employing countermeasures?
NOT including applying for an IC position, this will be my 2nd poly I’ve taken for employment. The first was for a local municipality— i can only assume the two aren’t mutually exclusive?
If you educate yourself about polygraphy, you can learn certain behaviors to avoid that are likely to bring an accusation of attempted countermeasures. For example, breathing slowly and regularly and/or deeply is likely to bring an accusation of attempted countermeasures. The same goes for physical movement.
One other thing that’s very likely to bring an accusation of attempted countermeasures is telling your polygraph operator that you’ve researched polygraphy. Anyone who spends even a little time researching the polygraph will quickly learn that it’s pseudoscience. Polygraph operators want naive sources who believe that the machine can read their minds. Anyone who knows that what they do for a living is a fraud is perceived as a threat.
If you actually learn how to use polygraph countermeasures and in fact use them, you are unlikely to be accused of using countermeasures because the federal polygraph community has no ability to detect the kinds of countermeasures explained in sources such as The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. That this is so is borne out by U.S. government training materials leaked to the AntiPolygraph site.
Another testament to the U.S. government’s frustration over the public availability of information on how to easily pass (or beat) the polygraph (and its inability to detect them) is Operation Lie Busters, a federal criminal investigation that targeted for entrapment individuals who offered instruction on polygraph countermeasures.
Any chance you can expand on zero tolerance for Guideline H? Is it the past 7-10 years or lifetime for a contractor sponsored by Langley? Applicant is turning 35 and experimented in high school and has not since.
@Trey3…I’ve only recently been following your journey. Is your 2nd poly scheduled for this month? I’m still waiting on my first one but just finished my subject interview last week
Yes, in a couple of weeks.
May I ask what location (agency) your applying for: Langley/Ft. Meade?
(I have yet to have a subject interview)
I am sure there are some law enforcement positions with FBI, DEA, ATF etc where this may be the case, but I have not heard of any IC agencies with such a policy. And I tried to quote @EdFarmerIII but screwed it up somehow
@Trey3 Ft.Meade. I’m still at the start of my timeline so sounds like I have a long way to go.
@Rkf4ever, yes and NO… when I went last month, there were people who just got started In August 2018 and were already in their Poly/psych stage. You never know. But be prepared for a long waiting time. I’ve been at this since 2017.
I knew there was something I forgot to ask:
So, in a couple of weeks IF I “pass” this 2nd poly… would I then be accused of countermeasures? Or for my sake, is it just best that I come back “inconclusive…” (which will most likely happen) yet again?
If you pass, you pass. Normally the second chance they will tell you if you need to come back or not. Just because you pass the poly, doesnt mean that you get the job either.