I’m active duty in the Navy. I hired a lawyer to help me respond to it and I submitted it through the Secutiy manager we have here on board.
I haven’t had a Navy case recently, but in the past when Navy cases were handled by Division C of DoD CAF, the fastest decision any of my clients received was in one month and the two slowest took 11 months. DoD CAF has reorganized (and changed their name) since then, so I not sure if all Navy cases are handled in the same division. DoDM 5200.02 says that the CAF is supposed to make a decision in 60 days of receiving the SOR response. And if they don’t, they’re supposed to notify you and explain why and then get it done in no more than 90 days. Almost all of my military and DoD civilian clients did not receive a decision within 60 days and none of them received notification of why it was taking so long. Basically, DoD CAF (and now DCSA CAS) doesn’t comply with that part of DoDM 5200.02. Who was your attorney and what has his/her experience been with Navy cases?
You can ask your security manager to initiate a Customer Service Request (CSR) and inquire regarding the status of your case. He/she can also remind DCSA CAS of the 60-day requirement in DoDM 5200.02.
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I will ask the security manager about the Customer Service Request (CSR) and inquire regarding the status ofcase and the 60 day requirement in DoDM 5200.02. My lawyer is Edmunds Law Firm. They have handled a lot of cases in the past. Are there any other recommendations on my case? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
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Mine is over 2 months now. How much longer can it take?
I’m at over a year now for an IC agency since I sent in my SOR response. I send them a check-in letter once every few months and they just reply that the case is still in progress. Haven’t even had my personal appearance yet. And so it goes…
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Hey @Amberbunny2, what’s the latest scoop on IC SOR appeals with regards to foreign influence concerns? I have an in-law in a hostile country that I haven’t had any contact with in over ten years, but her mere existence got me a denial. This person is still alive as far as I know; does that mean I am unclearable until they are dead? Very confused that the agency is taking such a hard line here. This fonat is a retired waitress with no education past high school, no connection to foreign gov. At a loss about what I can expect here.
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Thats a tough one. Through no active fault of your own they feel the risk is too high. The no contact 10 plus years would seem to mitigate that. I’ve had mere cleared cooks who maintained relations in semi hostile countries get cleared. It took 4 years. And they polygraphed his wife who we were not hiring. So it is…possible…but may take political engagement to get them to revisit. They love their wall of separation and silence when everyday people just have questions as to possible paths forward. Love for William Henderson (lawyer) to chime in here. He has handled many suspensions and likely seen a similar enough situation
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Nbeckard, no. We usually got a denial for new hires, or a denial/revocation for existing employees. We had no choice but to remove from compound. Allow SOR to arrive with them.
Not related but related: in every case, a dozen or more, where an employee swore they had no idea why they could not clear poly…I offered to help write their appeal. I told them bring me the SOR. Igit excuses: Lost, dont recall what it said, etc. Id tell them I need see it to put my reputation on the line. Finally they would bring it. Filled with drug use issues. All they denied for Secret, denied on TS upgrade, denied throughout poly…then finally admit to polygrapher. Say what you will about them or the process. They are very good at getting you relaxed once confessing. That opens flood gates of stories.
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Do you mind providing more context about your foreign contact? Is that through your significant others? Does this individual hold any positions in the hostile government or military? If they reject you for one very single foreign contact that you don’t even talk to for decades, then I guess a lot of us are SOL…for the very same agency…
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Hey,
As stated in original post, this single FNC is my mother in law. She is a citizen of a hostile nation but has no connection to gov or mil.
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@willam-henderson any input here? Very interested to hear your analysis
Amberbunny2: I’m not an attorney, but I help clients with clearance eligibility problems, including representation at hearings before DOHA and other agencies.
LDomino:
If you are dealing with a DoD IC agency (NSA, DIA, NRO, NGA) and you are willing to wait, you can request that your case be processed by DOHA (see [USD-I&S memo]. I think you’ll have a much better chance of success at DOHA than at one of the DoD IC agencies. If neither you nor your wife have had any contact with your M-I-L for several years and there are no other problem FNCs, you should have a reasonable chance of getting a clearance through DOHA. If you’re dealing with the CIA, don’t get your hopes up and expect to wait a year or more for first level review decision. The CIA can be extremely slow, arbitrary and capricious.
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Yep, the spouse could also pose a risk, albeit the OP hasn’t talked to the MIL for decades.
Additionally, if the spouse appeared to have strong tie with the hostile country (such as traveling there frequently, owning property there, having other financial interests there such as possible inheritance , and communicating with other relatives like her cousins, aunt and uncles,) that could be a risk factor. I’ve read so many cases on DOHA and to my surprise, a spouse’ foreign contacts and foreign interest actually are heavily weighted during adjudication/appeal process….
All very good points! However they don’t apply to me; my spouse left her country a long time ago, cut all ties, changed her name, and became a US citizen. This is all especially frustrating because since my denial, I’ve had a second from another agency, citing the first decision. A daisy chain of disappointment.
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Really disappointing to hear that the second agency denied you as well. I was hoping for a positive outcome, considering that foreign influence is due to no fault of your own. I’m hoping my ongoing process doesn’t end the same way as yours.
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Honestly very hard to say. I got the hammer but I personally know folks who are foreign born in a hostile nation with family abroad that gut their blue badge. The process honestly feels pretty random from the outside. Good luck!
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@willam-henderson I’ve got a, sort of, similar problem. I would love your input. Thankfully, I have the support of my entire agency and the security office and they have kept me on for a year and a half with no clearance trying to fix this problem. But right now I have the DCSA, who suspended my clearance, refusing to look at my reconsideration package until I provide them documentation proving that I don’t have an open appeal with the CIA. Basically they want a letter from the CIA stating this. Have you ever encountered something like this? My lawyer sent in a request for this document in April and nothing. I don’t know how to get the CIA to provide me this and when my office asked DCSA for help they stated that they don’t have anything to do with CIA appeals and that I should work with my lawyer…
Sorry this is long…it’s just a crazy situation and I’m out of ideas of how to fix it…
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icefigures,
Within DoD a request for “reconsideration” is only possible 1 year after a clearance has been denied or revoked by the original adjudication authority or by the PSAB, whichever is later. You can’t apply for “reconsideration” when your clearance has only been suspended. Are you using the right terminology?
According to the CIA Office of Congressional Affairs in a letter dated 26 January 2022, having an open appeal at the CIA does not prevent a person from applying to other agencies for a security clearance. The CIA is notoriously slow in responding to applicants, other federal agencies, and even US Senators. It took 2.5 months for the CIA to respond to an inquiry on my behalf by Senator Mark Warner, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. DCSA is probably waiting to get a response directly from the CIA about the possible existence of a pending appeal and decided to have you try also.
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Well, I was definitely told that my security office was submitting a “reconsideration package”. And my directorate chief told that same thing about the CIA to DCSA but they won’t budge that an appeal with another agency means they can’t act.
So basically, here’s a timeline:
Nov 2019 Conditional offer from CIA
March 2020 Poly
September 2020 Accepted job with DoD, granted Interim clearance
April 2021 Granted TS/SCI by DCSA and read into SAP run by Air Force Office of Special investigations
Dec 2021 SCI denial by CIA, I informed my security office
Feb 14, 2022 Read out of TS, was told that I had my Secret until 1 year from SCI denial at which time my office said they would put me in for SCI
Feb 15, 2022 Was told that because the individual who was in charge of the SAP pulled me out without talking to anyone else my security office was forced to pull my secret as well. I was told that a removal from one meant a removal from all.
Oct 2022 My security office was told by DCSA that once 1 year was up they could do a new investigation
Jan 2023 Filled out new eQIP
Mid Jan 2023 My security office was told that my T5 investigation was still good so they didn’t accept the new eQIP. My security head said the DCSA wanted a “reconsideration package” instead. It was submitted and then DCSA came back and said because I had an appeal with the CIA they couldn’t do anything until that process was completed. I informed my office that my lawyer had said to expect 4 years before getting a CIA answer. DCSA replied that there was “no way that was legal” and “the CIA operates under rules and policies that dictate how long they have to review an appeal.” The DCSA said to get a timeline from the CIA on my appeal.
March 2022 Got a response from the CIA saying they won’t give a timeline and that “in general, appeals are addressed in the order received”. My office took this letter back to the DCSA saying “what now”?
April 2022 DCSA said they asked their legal team and they will proceed with my case after documentation from the CIA that I withdrew from the appeal
April 2022 My lawyer sent a letter to the CIA withdrawing and asking for a written response.
June 2022 Nothing from CIA. Asked my office what to do if I can’t get proof that the DCSA wants from the CIA.
Here’s their response according to my security office: “First and foremost let me say to XXX, on behalf of XXX we are sorry for what you’re experiencing, it shows from your directorate leadership and Security, that we have and will continue to do everything we can to help/support your current situation. With that said, after countless conversations and emails with the DoD CAS and specifically asking what was suggested below, the DoD CAS stands on their recent response to XXX in that they will need documented proof that the appeal process is cancelled with CIA and unfortunately they are not part of your appeal with the CIA and recommends you continue to reach out through your attorney on getting decisions/documents from the CIA.”
So, I’m guessing this is a new one for you? Is an OIG complaint appropriate? I mean, the DCSA is flat out refusing to talk to the CIA and is putting the onus on me to get the documentation they want. Thanks in advance…
Hey William,
I have never heard of this before; other agencies will not clear during a CIA appeal period? Can you share this 26 Jan 2022 letter?